Seperation of Church & State

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I've done a lot of wrong. I'm still working on becoming a better person, and I may not ever be completely happy with how morally good I am

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Isn't it this kind of guilt what it takes to be a REAL Catholic? Or just Jewish...either one...OY! [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]...just kidding RW0105...

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- Just to dispel a quick myth - the Holy Mother is not the center of the Church. The Holy Trinity is. The Mother of God is just looked at in espeically HIGH regard. She is not of "God" status, but she's seen as an example of how good Christians should act and serve

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I don't think that, but what I guess I meant was that she is looked up to and prayed to as a religious figure--not a God--but a religious figure, like any of the saints. She's a central figure in the faith just like the Holy Trinity, but just below that God status you mentioned.

To be honest, I think for the most part I agree with your argument. I have those same problems...socially, I think abortion is a choice. Religiously, I think it is an abomination. Socially, I think church and state should be kept separate. Religiously, I feel that we need to have people who have a personal relationship with God in office to make the right decisions, not just totally based on their faith alone, but by the knowledge that God has blessed them with. That may be where the rift lies...some of the religious figures that dabble in government policy are basing their beliefs totally on the letter of the word, and not leaning on the understanding of the world today that's granted to them by a relationship with God. Some people thump the Bible until they're red in the face, but lose sight of the fact that God lives and we can have a relationship with him and he will guide us through prayer and through studying the word...not all answers come from the Bible--it is merely a guide by which for us to worship &amp; relate to God and Jesus Christ. I know that's an unpopular opinion, but I think it's a focal point to help us see things that God wants us to see and have knowledge of.

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Some people thump the Bible until they're red in the face, but lose sight of the fact that God lives and we can have a relationship with him and he will guide us through prayer and through studying the word...not all answers come from the Bible--it is merely a guide by which for us to worship &amp; relate to God and Jesus Christ. I know that's an unpopular opinion, but I think it's a focal point to help us see things that God wants us to see and have knowledge of.

That my friend whether your realize (intended) it or not, is a very "Catholic" statement haha.

Here's my take it was wrong of the Republican party to polarize relgious people on the subject just to help win an election. It made a lot of people hateful towards each other. Last year I was a fourth year at UVA and I would say the campus was about 50/50, but never had I seen such hostility in opinion towards other people. Best friends would talk behind each others backs, or would spout out their political opinions out loud without regard to how offensive they were to other people (this may actually just be a Wahoo thing - I hate the stuck up NOVA kids myself).

I seriously am not built for politics because I believe that in a bipartisan system, you're given few choices as to what sides you can take. That's why I'm a swing voter. I just hope I can better inform myself before the next election and accurately weigh out my priorities.

Yeah--It probably is RW0105, I really don't define myself as one particular denomination. There's not going to be denominations in Heaven, so why worry about that right now? I grew up in a Freewill Baptist church, but now regularly attend a Southern Baptist church. I've been to Catholic services, Presbyterian, Methodist, Church of God, Christian Church, Church of Christ, non-denominational churches (that may as well have been Pentacostal)...and the one constant out of all of them is Jesus, the cross, and an importance of a relationship with the Holy Trinity. That my friend is what I focus on when I'm worshipping. Not spiritual gifts, special prayers, good works, backsliding/once-in-faith-always-in-faith/confession, or anything else that gets argued about.

I think sometimes God is kinda left out of most churches and he's sitting in the corner like "Hello? What about me? Are we going to get to me anytime soon?" [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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Not spiritual gifts, special prayers, good works, backsliding/once-in-faith-always-in-faith/confession, or anything else that gets argued about.

That my friend is a complaint of more educated Catholics - that some people do all those things you listed above and expect everything will be alright. Which is why your statement about eternal guilt as being part of being a good Catholic is actually a pretty correct one.

One should never compare himself against others and say, "I do this better". But rather you should look at others and see what they do morally well and try to emulate that action. Everyone (except for crazed psycho Satanic killers, etc...) has their inherent goodness, and has good points that should be emulated.

"God, being omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent as he is has no need for a Christian president of any denomination in the White House to get HIS agenda done. And isn't that the one that really matters anyways?
socially, I think abortion is a choice. Religiously, I think it is an abomination. Socially, I think church and state should be kept separate."

- I think that right there sums it up pretty well A Football Fan

I think if religious pro-lifers want to get their mission done, they should work on Evangelizing people and not mobilizing voters.

From 2004: Do Democrats Stand a Chance?

"Here's where the matter got complicated for me. The Republican party is pro-life but is in complete disagreement with a lof of my beliefs on social justice and even some of my partical notions of monetary policy and such."

In what way are you in disagreement with the Republican Party in reference to social justice? I am somewhat in agreement with your analysis on Republican Fiscal policy and have stated that several times myself.

ergh, that's for another day and after I do a lot of research before I open my mouth...
I'm speaking off of intutition, strong intutition, but my opinions aren't perfectly researched...
I'll bring it up eventually I'm sure as we get closer to critical elections.

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ergh, that's for another day and after I do a lot of research before I open my mouth...
I'm speaking off of intutition, strong intutition, but my opinions aren't perfectly researched...
I'll bring it up eventually I'm sure as we get closer to critical elections.

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At least you're honest and bravo to you for wanting to come on this board and argue facts instead of pure intuition, thought, &amp; emotion. You'll be a welcome asset here.

"focusing on their relationship with God and Jesus (and for Catholics, the Holy Mother)"
-Are you implying that Catholics do not show the same reverence to "the holy trinity" that protestants do?

"They should NOT attempt to control government."
-I see, should they atleast be allowed to participate in government so as they don't end up being excluded or CONTROLLED by that very same gov't itself?

"There shouldn't be any statements on any governmental control or law by the Vatican, the Church of God, the Southern Baptists, the Jewish, the Islamic, etc...as a body trying to influence government."
-Wow...let me take this in, if thats not a radical statement I don't know what is! A call to exclude all faiths from freedom of speech!

"Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, James Dobson, etc...Religious men claiming their religion as an excuse to push their own political agendas."
-So are you saying they are not really men of faith but just pretend to be for their own political motives? Do you have any supporting facts on that?

"especially when it comes to affairs a religious body has no business dealing with."
-Just curious which affairs you might be referring to?